Andrew C. Long:

his Y-DNA results

John R. Long (c1815-1864)

(Photo courtesy of Leslie Wright-Bagwell Florida USA)

Four research hypotheses

We have indications from various sources that our ancestor Philip Long who died in Clair Madawaska NB in 1832 may have been of English, Scottish, American or German descent. Over the past 20 years, I've been accumulating these clues, which have led me to formulate four distinct hypotheses as to his origins. 

French-speaking Quebecers and New Brunswickers believe that every country has a genealogical resource like ours, established by the Catholic Church since the early 17th century. In the U.S., it wasn't until 1850 that the government held a census that was useful for genealogy. This is the main reason why we know nothing about the origins of our ancestor Philip Long. In my experience, the situation is not much better in the UK.

I hope that you don't think we haven't found Philip Long's birthplace because we haven't yet found the register of the parish where he was born......

DNA to the rescue of descendants of European immigrants

North America was populated mainly by immigrants from Europe. Most of their descendants did not leave behind any documentation enabling them to learn about their European ancestors and the places where they lived. Certainly, there was an oral tradition in these families, which eventually faded.

In the absence of civil and religious documents, DNA has been used for a quarter of a century in the hope of better locating our European ancestors in time and space, more in time than in space. Basically, we all seek to establish continuity within our families: immigration has produced a break in that continuity.

Family Tree

The Family Tree company plays a valuable role for individuals whose surname is L*NG, as it does for many other families. To date, 563 L*NG individuals have undergone DNA testing and are registered in the L*NG database. 

The value of a DNA test in genealogy lies in the ability to compare individuals to find similarities between their respective profiles. In itseld, a DNA test is useless in genealogy.

Our haplogroup i-m223

The current state of the science distributes all humans into 20 haplogroups, which are subdivided into subgroups. We belong to haplogroup i-m223. It's amazing that we belong to a database of 563 individuals whose surname is L*NG, but that our subgroup consists of only four (4) distinct individuals. How many years do we have to wait for other individuals to be added to our tiny haplogroup? 

Big test, big result

It's especially important to know that Family Tree offers sample analysis from 12 markers up to 111 markers or more. The greater the number of markers, the greater the chances of obtaining significant distinctions between the individuals being compared. 

For example, using a 25-marker test, there are few differences between individuals in our haplogroup. The level of testing that interests us is that of 111 markers. A lower level of testing enables us to determine the haplogroup of an individual who cannot be found in two haplogroups, but the difference between them is not really revealing.  

While a basic test can place an individual in a haplogroup, it cannot establish any real differences between the members of that haplogroup. It is therefore essential to use at least a 111-marker test. 

DNA and the Most Recent Common Ancestor (MRCA)

DNA is used because the Y chromosome in males does not change, or changes with a certain regularity, i.e. one change per century or four generations. All other chromosomes change, as each individual inherits half of their genetics from their father and the other half from their mother.

The Y chromosome in men

The Y chromosome changes at a rate of about one marker per four generations, i.e. per century: this is the general rule that guides us. The J. D. MacDonald's grid follows this general rule.

The MRCA calculation grid from J. D. MacDonald

In comparison with another member of the haplogroup, if my profile indicates that there is a difference of three markers between the two of us, it means that eleven (11) generations ago, we had the same ancestor. If we both passed the test in the year 2000, we can claim that our MRCA lived around the year 1725. If the difference between the two of us is 10 markers, our MRCA lived in the year 1350, i.e. the Middle Ages. 

A test of time, not space

It's not right to claim that DNA can be used to locate ancestors in space. In short, DNA is not a magic wand that replaces documentation, which generally specifies where an ancestor was born and lived. DNA is more about the 'time' dimension. However, if several individual of the same haplogroup appear to have ancestors in a particuler region at the same time, it must be concluded that the MRCA of these individuals lived there. 

The fact of specifying a genetic link between two individuals does not make it possible to specify where their MRCA lived, unless of course one of the two individuals knows where this common ancestor lived. Remember that many Americans who get a DNA test is because they don't know anything about their european ancestors.

Nevertheless, as the databases grow, we find that certain haplogroups are frequent in some regions, while absent in others. Since these databases are populated by voluntary individuals without respecting conventional sampling parameters, it is likely that results such as ours are conditioned by the fact that more immigrants have come from certain regions. 

The prevalence of haplogroup i-m223

It's known that our haplogroup i-m223 is prevalent in the Central European region, but that's not the only place. There is a database specific to the haplogroup i-m223, and it can be found in Scotland. However, the database specific to Scotland does not show any. My conclusion: haplogroup i-m223 once existed in Scotland, but existed in many other countries. 

It's crucial to understand that my current Y chromosome is the same as that of my ancestors who lived many centuries before, but which has undergone regular modifications. So, if I share an MRCA from Finland, it doesn't mean that all my ancestors come exclusively from Finland. Even if my close ancestors are from Clair, it doesn't mean that all my close ancestors without exception are from Clair. 

We're looking for the birthplace of our ancestor Philip Long, who immigrated to Canada from the USA in 1783: that's the 100-dollar question! To this end, the other members of our haplogroup come to the rescue and may well give us a better idea of Philip's birthplace. 

Members of our haplogroup i-m223

The members of our haplogroup who have passed at least the 111-marker test are: Gilles Long (Madawaska); Kenneth A. Long (Pennsylvania), Nils-Göran Lang (Finland) and Andrew C. Long (North Carolina). 

John R. Long (c1815-1864)

(Photos courtesy of Leslie Wright Bagwell, Florida USA)

Paul L*NG (1829-1902)

Grandson of Philip Long (Clair NB)

John R. Long (c1815-1864)

Since Darl Gaylord Long underwent DNA testing over 15 years ago and is a member of our haplogroup, we know that we are significantly related to John R. Long, his ancestor, born in Pennsylvania around 1815. We know this thanks to Leslie Wright Bagwell, who is part of this family and has published her family's genealogy back to John R. who married Sarah Piper from England at a date and place both unknown. 

Note of Sybilla Long-Hughes

published by Leslie Wright Bagwell

Description

Sybilla Long-Hughes

I was born on February 1850 in Erie Co. Pennsylvania.

The name of my father was John R. Long born in Germany.

The name of my mother was Sarah Piper born in England.

Sybilla Long-Hughes, the couple's daughter born in 1850, left this note stating that her mother was of English descent and that her father was of German descent. In all the censuses of this family, John R. Long indicated that he was originally from Pennsylvania.

You can see why we, in Madawaska, are so interested in this family mainly from Michigan USA. Darl Gaylord Long and Andrew C. Long are close relatives. In other words, it's always been crucial to know how closely my family is linked to that of John R. Long, who is said to be of German origin. 

It has become even more important to obtain a 111-marker DNA test from Darl Gaylord Long's family since James Kenneth Long of Pennsylvania passed a 111-marker Y-DNA test and his family believes that their European ancestors lived in England before immigrating to the United States. These immigants went to live in Massachusetts USA. In other words, there seems to be a dilemma: we are linked to both a family of English origin and a family of German origin. Is it possible that we are related to both families to the same degree? In the absence of documentation, only a DNA test can resolve this dilemma. 

James Kenneth Long

Another member of our haplogroup, James Kenneth Long, lived in Pennsylvania. His close ancestors lived in Massachusetts for many years. According to their family tree, the family's first European immigrant came from southern England. This is not proven beyond doubt, however. 

His 111-marker DNA test shows a difference of five (5) markers with our Madawaska family and a difference of nine (9) markers with Nils-Goran's family, whose origins go back to Finland. 

According to the MacDonald grid, we share an MRCA with James Kenneth, who would have lived around the year 1600, i.e. 16 generations of 25 years each. We share an MRCA with Nils-Goran, who would have lived around 1400.

Even with a 37-marker test, Darl Gaylor Long is closely related to my family. The 111-marker test by Andrew C. Long will tell us whether the L*NGs of Madawaska share a closer MRCA with Andrew than with James Kenneth. 

Andrew C. Long: DNA test results

Andrew C. Long from North Carolina belongs to the same family as Darl Gaylord Long who lived in Michigan. It was Leslie Wright-Bagwell's genealogical work that enabled me to trace Andrew. He immediately understood what his DNA test results would mean for all our families. Here are the results.

The family of James K. Long, through Teresa Long, has long authorized me to manage their DNA file on Family Tree. James' test is 111 markers, while mine is only 37 markers. Teresa allows me to compare James' file with the others, forgetting mine: Gilles' file is enough to represent all the L*NGs from Madawaska. The results you see are a comparison of James K. Long's results with those of the other three members of our haplogroup.

The difference of only three (3) markers between James & Andrew indicates, according to the McDonald table, that they share an MRCA 11 generations ago, or 275 years at 25 years per generation: their MRCA lived around the year 1750. WOW!!!!

The difference of five (5) markers between James & Gilles indicates that they share an MRCA 400 years ago at a rate of 25 years per generation: their common ancestor lived around the year 1600. Our common ancestor was from Europe, that's a fact....

You realize that there is, therefore, a difference of five (5) markers between Andrew & Gilles. Keep in mind that the comparison standard is James K, in this case. 

If Andrew's family, via John R. Long, is of German origin as Sybilla has claimed, it stands to reason that James' ancestors are also of German origin, which is entirely possible. James' family is not certain of the origins of the first European immigrant of their family who settled in Massachusetts around 1680. Some descendants had first names that had a German flavor....in my humble opinion. This immigrant may well have lived in the UK (England, Scotland, Ireland) before settling in Massachusetts. Remember: moving from one country to another one doesn't change genes....!

Clearly, Madawaska L*NGs do not share a MRCA with James & Andrew in the recent past, i.e. around 1750. The common ancestor between Madawaska L*NGs, James K. from Pennsylvania & Andrew C. from North Carolina dates back to around 1600: that's it, that's all! 

In other words, all DNA results to date do not show a recent and strong link with the other three members of our haplogroup. To me, a common ancestor dating back four centuries is not recent, not at all!

We've had the same Y-DNA for centuries, as seen with Nils-Goran, whose ancestors were Finns in the Middle Ages. The results do not show that I have a difference of two or three markers with one member. A difference of three markers would have launched a lively discussion around the kitchen table....

Genes don't lie! We can see that James K. & Andrew C. have an MRCA who may well have lived in the U.S. and who may well have been the grandfather of John R. Long born circa 1815 in Pennsylvania. These two families have now a new motivation for trying to find the 'missing link', this MRCA......

Although my ancestor Philip Long was in the U.S. in 1780, we can't claim that his father, for example, was a close relative of the ancestors of James K. & Andrew C. The results speak for themselves.

You are free to believe that Philip Long was of German, Scottish, Finnish or British origin: all these options are valid. You've also realized that all these members of our haplogroup share an MRCA from Germany circa 1600. Going further back in time, our ancestors lived in Finland, which still remains in the great region of Central Europe.  

While the Y-DNA results acquired since the year 2000 do not demonstrate a strong link between my ancestor Philip with one nationality rather than another, we do know that the origin of our haplogroup lies in Central Europe, probably in Germany. This Y-DNA gene subsequently moved with individuals from one country to another, and from one century to another, with one modification per century.