(Scroll down for the English version)
L'ADN des L*NG du Madawaska
D'entrée de jeu, je vous demande de ne pas partir de rumeurs non fondées à propos de l'origine de Philip Long. Mon objectif a toujours été de chercher des documents, de formuler des hypothèses de recherche et de les mettre à l'épreuve. Souvent, je formule une hypothèse dans le but de l'éliminer, de l'infirmer.
Ils sont peu nombreux à chercher les origines de Philip Long. Je me donne cette disponibilité et je crois en être capable. Cependant, même si cette recherche dure depuis maintenant un siècle, nous ne pouvons répondre à la question précise suivante: Où est né Philip Long, l'ancêtre des L*NG du Madawaska?Ce qui me semble possible et probable, c'est plutôt de déterminer avec une probabilité raisonnable d'où provient la famille de Philip. Des États-Unis? Du Royaume-Uni? De l'Allemagne? Nous savons de lui-même qu'il se disait un Américain. Que cherchons-nous de plus à son sujet? Pourquoi ne sommes-nous pas satisfaits de cette information? Dieu seul le sait....
Je vous ferai part d'ici peu des aspects de ma recherche depuis l'an 2000. Je réalise que notre grande famille y a droit, surtout que je me considère comme un bénévole pour cette famille.
Nos tests d'ADN ont carrément changé la donne dans ma recherche. Mais, cette nouvelle science ne nous indiquera pas l'adresse postale de Philip lorsqu'il vivait aux États-Unis....
Revenons à nos moutons...
Our DNA tests have made a huge difference in my research. However, this new science will not tell us Philip's mailing address when he lived in the United States....
Let's get back to the matter at hand...
Looking at Table 1, I am convinced that you believe that my Y-chromosome contains an element borrowed here and there in Europe: in France, Germany, England, Finland, or else. NOT AT ALL!!!! Let me explain what this table represents.
NOTE. I had my Y-DNA analyzed by the 23andMe company. The above table is the result. Gilles Long and I have one file at Ancestry and one at 23andMe.
Companies such as Ancestry and 23andMe have only been offering DNA testing services for a few years. As they do so, they're getting information about the origins of their clients, the ones who know where their ancestors were born. The majority of these clients are descendants of European immigrants to America. European families who have lived in the same place for centuries have little reason to take a DNA test. Since North America has been populated over the last four centuries by immigrants from Europe, their descendants in America are fond of DNA testing. This is the case for my family. Since most of these immigrants did not leave any documentation of their ancestry, DNA testing is a lifeline, a last resort.
These specialized companies do more than accumulate data from their clientele. Teams are now being sent to communities in Europe and Africa in search of well-established families. They get their DNA. By doing so, we have a better idea where in Europe the haplogroups come from. One expert has already stated that our DNA is mostly present in northern Germany, which does not mean that it is not present elsewhere.
Therefore, the table above tells us this: 51% of the sample of this company (23andMe) are individuals whose ancestors are French & German, and 30% are British & Irish. The remaining 20% come from elsewhere. In other words, in the current state of their database, my Y-DNA is found in 50% of their records whose ancestors come from France & Germany and 30% of their records whose ancestors come from England & Ireland.
Tableau 1
Tableau de résultats fournis par l'entreprise 23andMe montrant
que les individus actuels qui ont un profil génétique similaire au mien
(ou celui de Gilles Long et n'importe lequel L*NG du Madawaska)
proviennent surtout (80%) de deux endroits particuliers.
En scrutant le Tableau 1, je suis convaincu que vous croyez que mon chromosome-Y comporte un élément emprunté ici et là en Europe: en France, en Allemagne, en Angleterre, en Finlande, alouette. PAS DU TOUT!!!! Je vais vous expliquer ce que représente ce tableau.
NOTE. J'ai fait analyser mon Y-ADN par l'entrerise 23andMe. Le tableau ci-haut en est le résultat. Gilles Long et moi avons un dossier chez Ancestry et un autre chez 23ansMe.
Depuis quelques années à peine, des entreprises telles que Ancestry et 23andMe offrent un service de tests d'ADN. Au fur et à mesure, elles tirent des informations sur l'origine de leurs clients, ceux qui savent où sont nés leurs ancêtres. La majorité de cette clientèle est formée de descendants d'immigrants européens en Amérique. Les familles européennes établies au même endroit depuis des siècles n'ont pas vraiment de raison de passer un test d'ADN. Comme l'Amérique du Nord a été peuplée ces quatre derniers siècles par des immigrants d'Europe, leurs descendants en Amérique sont friands de tests d'ADN. C'est le cas de ma famille. Puisque la plupart de ces immigrants n'ont pas laissé une documentation quant à leurs ancêtres, les tests d'ADN constituent une bouée de sauvetage, un dernier recours.
Ces entreprises spécialisées font plus que d'accumuler des données à partir de leur clientèle. On envoie maintenant des équipes en Europe et en Afrique dans des localités à la recherche de familles bien établies. On obtient leur ADN. Ce faisant, on a une meilleure idée à quels endroits de l'Europe proviennent les groupehaplos. Un expert a déjà affirmé que notre ADN était surtout présent dans le nord de l'Allemagne, ce qui ne signifie pas qu'il n'est pas présent ailleurs.
Par conséquent, le tableau ci-haut nous indique ceci: 51% de l'échantillon de cette entreprise (23andMe) sont des individus dont les ancêtres sont Français & Allemands, et 30% sont Britanniques & Irlandais. Le 20% restant vient d'ailleurs. Autrement dit, dans l'état actuel de leur banque de données, mon Y-ADN se retrouve chez 50% de leurs dossiers dont les ancêtres proviennent de France & d'Allemagne et 30% de leurs dossiers dont les ancêtres proviennent d'Angleterre et de l'Irlande.
Je me répète: le chromosome Y-ADN ne change pas en changeant de pays ou en mariant une Française plutôt qu'une Suédoise. Personne ne sait pourquoi ce chromosome est stable, mais varie à long terme. S'il variait d'une génération à l'autre, il serait inutile en généalogie.
Le chromosome-Y transmis de père en fils
Nous sommes tous nés d'un couple, mâle et femelle, un père et une mère. Nos chromosomes sont le résultat de la fusion, de la combinaison des chromosomes de notre père et de notre mère. Cependant, le chromosome-Y est transmis intact de père en fils seulement: les filles n'héritent pas de ce chromosome-Y. Même s'il est qualifié de stable, il lui arrive de muter au hasard. Une mutation peut prendre un siècle avant de se produire. En général, un test du chromosome-Y confirme l'appartenance d'un individu à sa famille décrite dans les documents de sa généalogie......s'ils existent.
Il n'est donc pas étonnant que plusieurs ont recours au test de Y-ADN pour découvrir d'autres individus de leur parenté qu'ils ne connaissent pas et qui ont vécu dans un lointain passé. C'est une sorte de substitut à une généalogie documentaire manquante (paper trail). Bref, la principale qualité du chromosome-Y est sa stabilité à travers le temps, même s'il varie malgré tout au fil des siècles.
Un même patronyme mais un chromosome-Y différent
Prenons l'exemple fictif suivant. Un individu de ma famille décide de changer son patronyme de L*NG à Beaulieu. Ensuite, il passe un test Y-ADN pour réaliser que son chromosome-Y est identique au mien et non à celui de la famille Beaulieu. Vous pouvez changer votre patronyme, et changer de pays, mais votre chromosome-Y ne changera pas. Il n'est pas étonnant que Jeffrey L. Waite de la Pennsylvanie possède un chromosome-Y similaire à celui de Kenneth Long et complètement différent de celui de la famille Waite (Weight, Wecht), parce que son ACPR (1828) est un Long et non un Waite.
Au fil des siècles, les nombreuses adoptions ont aussi pu créer des situations semblables.
Le Tableau 2 suivant montre le degré de liaison génétique entre Kenneth Long et les autres membres de notre groupehaplo. Je suis convaincu que les deux partagent un ancêtre commun le plus récent (ACPR) aux environs de 1860. La famille Waite a toujours su que Laviana Heyman avait eu une relation avec un individu autre que son époux ou conjoint, ce dernier étant William Waite. Selon ma recherche, le père biologique de Dennis Waite est Thomas W. Long, l'ancêtre de Kenneth. Le test d'ADN a confirmé leur tradition orale. La différence entre Kenneth & Jeffrey est de deux marqueurs. Ancestry indique qu'une telle différence peut se produire dans un lapse de temps de 12 générations (plus ou moins selon le niveau de confiance), soit trois siècles. Visiblement, la précision de ce test est étonnante.
Tableau 2
Pour une raison technique, je n'ai pu obtenir la comparaison statistique entre le dossier de Jeffrey Waite et celui de Kenneth Long selon la table de probabilité utilisée par Ancestry. Puisqu'il y a une différence de deux (2) marqueurs entre les deux, j'ai celui qui compare Darl Long & Kenneth Long dont la différence est également de deux (2) marqueurs (Tableau 3).
Tableau 3
D'après Ancestry, et selon le test Y-ADN 37,
Darl et Kenneth ont un ACPR qui aurait vécu
certainement (97,51%) au plus tard
12 générations auparavant (trois siècles)
NOTE. Il existe d'autres tables de probabilité qui offrent des prédictions similaires, comme celle de Donald MacDonald.
Pour vous montrer le niveau de précision de ces tables, voici la comparaison entre mon résultat et celui de Gilles Long (Tableau 4).
Tableau 4
Gilles Long et moi partageons un ACPR
qui aurait vécu au plus tard il y a 8 générations passées (deux siècles).
Cet ACPR, nous le savons, est mon grand-père paternel Liguori
né le 21 février 1898.
Ceux qui naviguent dans les données fournies par les entreprises de testing de l'ADN constatent aussi que tous les L*NG n'appartiennent pas au même groupehaplo. On constate aussi de nombreuses variations à l'intérieur d'un groupehaplo quant au degré de proximité du ACPR. Il y a plusieurs milliers d'années, la majorité de ces groupehaplos partageaient un ACPR. Depuis, à la suite de mutations, les sous-groupes se sont formés en raison de variations dans le chromosome-Y. Présentement, sur Ancestry, je me retrouve dans un groupehaplo particulier que je viens de vous montrer. L'appartenance à un groupehaplo est réalisée à partir de quelques marqueurs.
Plus de marqueurs, plus de précision
Un test peut faire appel à 12 jusqu'à 111 marqueurs. Plus le nombre de marqueurs est identique entre deux individus, plus leur ACPR est proche dans le temps. Par exemple, si mon test révèle une différence d'un (1) seul marqueur avec un autre individu de notre groupehaplo, ça signifie que nous partageons un ACPR qui a vécu environ un siècle plus tôt, grosso modo. Vous allez rétorquer que pour de la précision, on a déjà vu mieux...Vous avez raison! Mais, une information incomplète me semble meilleure que l'absence d'information.
Le test Y-ADN nous est utile surtout parce qu'il permet de retrouver des individus de notre parenté que nous ne connaissions pas jusque-là. Nous savons depuis 15 ans que la majorité de notre 'parenté ADN' inconnue vit ou a vécu en Pennsylvanie. WOW! Voilà une information qui a redirigé nos recherches. Vous comprenez pourquoi nous épluchons la Pennsylvanie depuis longtemps. Le contact avec ces familles nous a apporté de nombreuses autres informations qui guident nos recherches. Ça nous a permis aussi de leur venir en aide.
Notre groupehaplo dans Ancestry
Tableau 5
(Ajoutez ce tableau à la droite du précédent)
(Ajoutez ce tableau à la droite du précédent)
Description
IN76569=Donald Long
48610=Gilles Long
74552=Darl Long
72314=Jeffrey Waite
IN78205=Gustaf Lang (Finlande)
902787=Kenneth Long
Pour le moment, je me contente d'analyser le test commun de 37 marqueurs (Tableau 5). Cependant, trois membres de notre groupehaplo ont passé le test de 111-marqueurs: Gilles Long, Lang (Finlande) et Kenneth Long.
Si A=B et que B=C, donc A=C
On constate qu'il n'existe que deux différences entre Jeffrey Waite & Kenneth Long. D'après mon analyse, l'ACPR des deux serait né en 1828, soit Thomas Long ancêtre de Kenneth Long et, du même coup, de Jeffrey Waite.
Vous êtes aussi en mesure de constater que le dossier de Darl Long est identique à celui de Jeffrey Waite. Donc, ces deux individus ont sûrement un ACPR qui a vécu dans un passé récent. Cet ACPR pourrait être un grand-père ou un arrière-grand-père. J'espère que dans un avenir rapproché nous aurons une meilleure idée de la relation entre ces deux familles ainsi qu'avec la famille de Kenneth Long.
Un dilemme n'attend pas l'autre
D'après les informations que nous avons obtenues de la famille de Darl, son ancêtre John Long serait né en 1815 en Pennsylvanie, tout comme son père et qu'il aurait des origines germaniques. Sa fille Sybilla Belle a laissé une note à ce sujet. Cette information de Sybilla brasse nos méninges depuis longtemps. Mais, l'arrivée de Kenneth Long dans notre groupe nous confronte avec un autre dilemme.
Il semblerait que la famille de Kenneth soit d'origine britannique, mais ce n'est pas encore certain. Cette famille possède une généalogie particulière et bien documentée. La majorité de cette famille a vécu au Massachusetts, à l'exception d'Isaac Long, l'ancêtre de Kenneth en Pennsylvanie. Leur documentation jusqu'au 17e siècle est de toute beauté! Un premier William Long au MA au mitan du 17e siècle: un trésor pour cette famille. Mais, on ne sait pas de quel pays il provenait. À cette époque, il y avait des Long surtout en Angleterre, en Irlande et en Allemagne. Vous venez de comprendre que si la famille de Kenneth tire ses racines d'Angleterre, comment la famille de Darl Long peut-elle prétendre provenir d'Allemagne? Je tente une réponse.
Une mesure temporelle, non une mesure spatiale
Il est crucial de savoir que le test Y-ADN se rapporte au temps et non à l'espace. Le chromosome-Y ne change pas lorsqu'un individu change de pays. Cependant, une famille qui vivait en Finlande en 1513 et dont certains descendants auraient atterri en 1925 en Angleterre ont pu subir des mutations durant ces quatre siècles nonobstant le pays où ont habité ces descendants. Ce n'était qu'un exemple fictif pour démontrer que les familles de Darl & de Kenneth ont pu avoir un ACPR qui a vécu en l'an 1556 en Scandinavie et dont des descendants ont immigré dans d'autres pays pendant tout ce temps pour se retrouver en bout de ligne aux États-Unis au 17e et au18e siècle.
Dans le Tableau 6, on compare mon résultat aux autres membres de notre groupehaplo. On voit qu'il n'y a aucune différence entre moi et Gilles Long.
Tableau 6
La différence entre moi et les autres membres de notre groupehaplo
quant à la distance génétique reflétée par le nombre de marqueurs
différents au test d'ADN-37 marqueurs
Dans le Tableau 7, on voit bien que les L*NG du Madawaska partagent un ancêtre lointain avec Kenneth Long. Cet ACPR aurait vécu il y a quatre siècles. On ne peut parler de la famille de Kenneth comme d'une parenté tricotée serrée!
Tableau 7
Comparaison entre Gilles Long et Kenneth Long
quant à leur ACPR
Mais, dans le Tableau 8, nous partageons avec Darl Long (descendant de John R. et Sarah Piper) un ACPR plus récent.
Tableau 8
Comparaison entre Darl Long et moi
quant à notre ACPR
Un mouvement social d'Est en Ouest
Parce que le mouvement d'immigration depuis plusieurs siècles va de l'Est vers l'Ouest, il n'est donc pas surprenant que ceux qui montrent un chromosome-Y similaire au nôtre ont pu vivre en Russie, ensuite en Scandinavie, ensuite en Allemagne, ensuite au Royaume-Uni et, enfin, aux États-Unis. Cette interprétation est possible: il reste à savoir à quel point elle s'applique à notre famille. Avec le temps, d'autres passeront le test Y-ADN. Un seul autre candidat à faire son entrée dans notre groupehaplo pourrait préciser davantage les origines récentes de Philip Long.
(English version)
First of all, I ask you not to start unfounded rumors about the origin of Philip Long. My goal has always been to search for documents, formulate research hypotheses and test them. Often, I formulate a hypothesis with the goal of eliminating it, of invalidating it. Few people are looking for Philip Long's origins. I give myself this availability and I believe I am capable of it. However, even if this research has been going on for a century now, we cannot answer the following precise question: Where was Philip Long born, the ancestor of the L*NG of Madawaska?
What seems possible and probable to me is rather to determine with reasonable probability where Philip's family comes from. From the United States? From the United Kingdom? From Germany? We know from himself that he said to be American, 39 years after he set foot in Canada. What else are we looking for about him? Why are we not satisfied with this information? God only knows....
I will soon share with you some aspects of my research since the year 2000. I realize that our large family is entitled to it, especially since I consider myself a volunteer for this family.
What seems possible and probable to me is rather to determine with reasonable probability where Philip's family comes from. From the United States? From the United Kingdom? From Germany? We know from himself that he said to be American, 39 years after he set foot in Canada. What else are we looking for about him? Why are we not satisfied with this information? God only knows....
I will soon share with you some aspects of my research since the year 2000. I realize that our large family is entitled to it, especially since I consider myself a volunteer for this family.
Our DNA tests have made a huge difference in my research. However, this new science will not tell us Philip's mailing address when he lived in the United States....
Let's get back to the matter at hand...
Table 1
Table of results provided by the company 23andMe showing that the current individuals who have a genetic profile similar to mine (or that of Gilles Long and any L*NG from Madawaska) come mostly (80%) from two particular locations.
Looking at Table 1, I am convinced that you believe that my Y-chromosome contains an element borrowed here and there in Europe: in France, Germany, England, Finland, or else. NOT AT ALL!!!! Let me explain what this table represents.
NOTE. I had my Y-DNA analyzed by the 23andMe company. The above table is the result. Gilles Long and I have one file at Ancestry and one at 23andMe.
Companies such as Ancestry and 23andMe have only been offering DNA testing services for a few years. As they do so, they're getting information about the origins of their clients, the ones who know where their ancestors were born. The majority of these clients are descendants of European immigrants to America. European families who have lived in the same place for centuries have little reason to take a DNA test. Since North America has been populated over the last four centuries by immigrants from Europe, their descendants in America are fond of DNA testing. This is the case for my family. Since most of these immigrants did not leave any documentation of their ancestry, DNA testing is a lifeline, a last resort.
These specialized companies do more than accumulate data from their clientele. Teams are now being sent to communities in Europe and Africa in search of well-established families. They get their DNA. By doing so, we have a better idea where in Europe the haplogroups come from. One expert has already stated that our DNA is mostly present in northern Germany, which does not mean that it is not present elsewhere.
Therefore, the table above tells us this: 51% of the sample of this company (23andMe) are individuals whose ancestors are French & German, and 30% are British & Irish. The remaining 20% come from elsewhere. In other words, in the current state of their database, my Y-DNA is found in 50% of their records whose ancestors come from France & Germany and 30% of their records whose ancestors come from England & Ireland.
I repeat: the Y-DNA chromosome does not change when changing countries or marrying a French woman rather than a Swedish woman. No one knows why this chromosome is stable, but varies in the long term. If it varied from one generation to the next, it would be useless in genealogy.
The Y-chromosome passed on from father to son
We are all born of a couple, male and female, father and mother (we already knew that Donald.....LOL). Our chromosomes are the result of the fusion, the combination of our father's and mother's chromosomes. However, the Y-chromosome is passed on intact from father to son only: daughters do not inherit the Y-chromosome. Even if it is said to be stable, it can mutate at random. A mutation can take up to a century to occur, if not more. In general, a Y-chromosome test confirms that an individual belongs to the family described in his or her genealogy records ...... if they exist.
Not surprisingly, many people use the Y-DNA test to discover other relatives they don't know who have lived in the distant past. It is a kind of substitute for a missing paper trail. In short, the main quality of the Y-chromosome is its stability over time, even if it varies over the centuries.
The same surname but a different Y-chromosome
Let's take the following fictitious example. An individual in my family decides to change his surname from L*NG to Beaulieu. Then he takes a Y-DNA test only to realize that his Y chromosome is identical to mine and not to the Beaulieu family. You can change your surname, and change your country, but your Y-chromosome will not change. It is not surprising that Jeffrey L. Waite of Pennsylvania has a Y-chromosome similar to Kenneth Long's and completely different from the Waite family (Weight, Wecht), because his most recent common ancestor (MRCA) who was born in 1828 is a Long and not a Waite. Over the centuries, numerous adoptions may also have created similar situations.
The following Table 2 shows the degree of genetic linkage between Kenneth Long and the other members of haplogroup.
I am convinced that the two share a MRCA circa 1860. The Waite family has always known that Laviana Heyman had a relationship with someone other than her spouse or partner, the latter being William Waite. According to my research, Dennis Waite's biological father is Thomas W. Long, Kenneth's ancestor. The DNA test confirms the oral tradition in the family of Jeffrey. The difference between Kenneth & Jeffrey is two markers. Ancestry indicates that such a difference can occur within 12 generations or approximately three centuries (more or less depending on the level of confidence).
For a technical reason, I was unable to obtain a statistical comparison between Jeffrey Waite's record and Kenneth Long's record based on the probability table used by Ancestry. Since there is a difference of two (2) markers between the two, I have the one comparing Darl Long & Kenneth Long whose difference is also two (2) markers (Table 3).
According to Ancestry, and using the Y-DNA 37 test, Darl and Kenneth have a MRCA that would have been very likely (97.51%) to have lived no more than 12 generations ago (three centuries).
NOTE. There are other probability tables that offer similar predictions, like the following one of Donald MacDonald.
To show you the level of precision of these tables, here is the comparison between my result and that of Gilles Long (Table 4).
Those who browse through the data provided by DNA testing companies also note that not all L*NGs belong to the same haplogroup. There is also a great deal of variation within a haplogroup as to how close they are to the MRCA. Several thousand years ago, the majority of these haplogroups shared a MRCA. Since then, as a result of mutations, subgroups have formed due to variations in the Y-chromosome. Currently, on Ancestry, I find myself in a particular haplogroup that I have just shown you. Membership in a haplogroup is based on a few markers.
More markers, more accuracy
A test can use 12 to 111 markers. The more the number of markers is the same between two individuals, the closer their MRCA is over time. For example, if my test reveals a difference of only one (1) marker with another individual in our haplogroup, it means that we share a MRCA that lived about a century earlier, roughly speaking. You will retort that for accuracy, we've seen better...You're right! But, incomplete information seems better than no information at all.
The Y-DNA test is useful to us mainly because it allows us to find individuals from our relatives that we didn't know before. We have known for 15 years that the majority of our unknown 'DNA relatives' live or have lived in Pennsylvania. WOW! This information redirected our search. You can see why we've been looking at Pennsylvania for a long time. Contact with these families has brought us a lot of other information that guides our research. It also allowed us to help them.
Haplogroup in Ancestry
At the moment, I am just analyzing the common test of 37 markers (Table 5). However, three members of our haplogroup have passed the 111-marker test: Gilles Long, Lang (Finland) and Kenneth Long.
If A=B and B=C, then A=C
One finds that there are only two differences between Jeffrey Waite & Kenneth Long. According to my analysis, the MRCA of both would have been born in 1828, i.e. Thomas Long, ancestor of Kenneth Long and, at the same time, of Jeffrey Waite.
You can also see that Darl Long's record is identical to that of Jeffrey Waite. Therefore, these two individuals surely have a MRCA who lived in a recent past. This MRCA could be a grandfather or a great-grandfather. I hope that in the near future we will have a better idea of the relationship between these two families as well as with Kenneth Long's family.
One dilemma does not wait for the other
According to the information we have obtained from Darl's family, his ancestor John R. Long is said to have been born in 1815 in Pennsylvania, just like his father, and to have Germanic origins. His daughter Sybilla Belle left a note on this subject. This information from Sybilla has been buzzing around in our heads for a long time. But, the arrival of Kenneth Long in our group confronts us with another dilemma.
It seems that Kenneth's family is of British origin, but that is not yet certain. This family has a particular and well-documented genealogy. The majority of this family lived in Massachusetts, with the exception of Isaac Long, Kenneth's ancestor, who went on to live in Pennsylvania. Their documentation up to the 17th century is quite beautiful! A first William Long in MA in the middle of the 17th century: a treasure for this family! But, we do not know from which country they came from. At that time, there were Longs mainly in England, Ireland and Germany. You have just understood that if Kenneth's family has its roots in England, how can Darl Long's family claim to be from Germany? Let's put forward the following answer.
A temporal measure, not a spatial measure
It is crucial to know that the Y-DNA test relates to time, not space. The Y-chromosome does not change when an individual moves from one country to another. However, a family who lived in Finland in 1513 and whose descendants would have landed in England in 1925 may have undergone mutations during those four centuries, regardless of the country where those descendants lived. This was only a fictitious example to demonstrate that the Darl & Kenneth families may have had a MRCA who lived in Scandinavia in 1556 and whose descendants immigrated to other countries during this time and eventually ended up in the United States in the 17th and 18th centuries.
Table 6 compares my result to the other members of haplogroup. It shows that there is no difference between me and Gilles Long.
The difference between me and the other members of haplogroup at the genetic distance reflected by the number of different markers on the DNA-37 marker test.
In Table 7, it is clear that L*NGs in Madawaska share a distant ancestor with Kenneth Long. This MRCA would have lived four centuries ago. Kenneth's family cannot be referred to as a close-knit family!
But, in Table 8, we share a 'more recent' MRCA with Darl Long (descendant of John R. and Sarah Piper).
A social movement from East to West
Because the immigration movement for several centuries has been from East to West, it is not surprising that those who show a Y-chromosome similar to ours may have lived in Russia, then Scandinavia, then Germany, then the United Kingdom and finally the United States. This interpretation is possible: it remains to be seen how well it applies to our family. In time, others will pass the Y-DNA test. Only one other candidate to join our haplogroup could further clarify Philip Long's recent origins.
The Y-chromosome passed on from father to son
We are all born of a couple, male and female, father and mother (we already knew that Donald.....LOL). Our chromosomes are the result of the fusion, the combination of our father's and mother's chromosomes. However, the Y-chromosome is passed on intact from father to son only: daughters do not inherit the Y-chromosome. Even if it is said to be stable, it can mutate at random. A mutation can take up to a century to occur, if not more. In general, a Y-chromosome test confirms that an individual belongs to the family described in his or her genealogy records ...... if they exist.
Not surprisingly, many people use the Y-DNA test to discover other relatives they don't know who have lived in the distant past. It is a kind of substitute for a missing paper trail. In short, the main quality of the Y-chromosome is its stability over time, even if it varies over the centuries.
The same surname but a different Y-chromosome
Let's take the following fictitious example. An individual in my family decides to change his surname from L*NG to Beaulieu. Then he takes a Y-DNA test only to realize that his Y chromosome is identical to mine and not to the Beaulieu family. You can change your surname, and change your country, but your Y-chromosome will not change. It is not surprising that Jeffrey L. Waite of Pennsylvania has a Y-chromosome similar to Kenneth Long's and completely different from the Waite family (Weight, Wecht), because his most recent common ancestor (MRCA) who was born in 1828 is a Long and not a Waite. Over the centuries, numerous adoptions may also have created similar situations.
The following Table 2 shows the degree of genetic linkage between Kenneth Long and the other members of haplogroup.
I am convinced that the two share a MRCA circa 1860. The Waite family has always known that Laviana Heyman had a relationship with someone other than her spouse or partner, the latter being William Waite. According to my research, Dennis Waite's biological father is Thomas W. Long, Kenneth's ancestor. The DNA test confirms the oral tradition in the family of Jeffrey. The difference between Kenneth & Jeffrey is two markers. Ancestry indicates that such a difference can occur within 12 generations or approximately three centuries (more or less depending on the level of confidence).
Table 2
Table 3
NOTE. There are other probability tables that offer similar predictions, like the following one of Donald MacDonald.
Table 4
Gilles Long and I share a MRCA that would have lived at the latest 8 generations ago (two centuries).This MRCA, as we know, is my paternal grandfather Liguori born on February 21, 1898.
Those who browse through the data provided by DNA testing companies also note that not all L*NGs belong to the same haplogroup. There is also a great deal of variation within a haplogroup as to how close they are to the MRCA. Several thousand years ago, the majority of these haplogroups shared a MRCA. Since then, as a result of mutations, subgroups have formed due to variations in the Y-chromosome. Currently, on Ancestry, I find myself in a particular haplogroup that I have just shown you. Membership in a haplogroup is based on a few markers.
More markers, more accuracy
A test can use 12 to 111 markers. The more the number of markers is the same between two individuals, the closer their MRCA is over time. For example, if my test reveals a difference of only one (1) marker with another individual in our haplogroup, it means that we share a MRCA that lived about a century earlier, roughly speaking. You will retort that for accuracy, we've seen better...You're right! But, incomplete information seems better than no information at all.
The Y-DNA test is useful to us mainly because it allows us to find individuals from our relatives that we didn't know before. We have known for 15 years that the majority of our unknown 'DNA relatives' live or have lived in Pennsylvania. WOW! This information redirected our search. You can see why we've been looking at Pennsylvania for a long time. Contact with these families has brought us a lot of other information that guides our research. It also allowed us to help them.
Haplogroup in Ancestry
Table 5
(Add this table to the right of the previous one)
(Add this table to the right of the previous one)
Description
IN76569=Donald Long
48610=Gilles Long
74552=Darl Long
72314=Jeffrey Waite
IN78205=Gustaf Lang (Finland)
902787=Kenneth Long
At the moment, I am just analyzing the common test of 37 markers (Table 5). However, three members of our haplogroup have passed the 111-marker test: Gilles Long, Lang (Finland) and Kenneth Long.
If A=B and B=C, then A=C
One finds that there are only two differences between Jeffrey Waite & Kenneth Long. According to my analysis, the MRCA of both would have been born in 1828, i.e. Thomas Long, ancestor of Kenneth Long and, at the same time, of Jeffrey Waite.
You can also see that Darl Long's record is identical to that of Jeffrey Waite. Therefore, these two individuals surely have a MRCA who lived in a recent past. This MRCA could be a grandfather or a great-grandfather. I hope that in the near future we will have a better idea of the relationship between these two families as well as with Kenneth Long's family.
One dilemma does not wait for the other
According to the information we have obtained from Darl's family, his ancestor John R. Long is said to have been born in 1815 in Pennsylvania, just like his father, and to have Germanic origins. His daughter Sybilla Belle left a note on this subject. This information from Sybilla has been buzzing around in our heads for a long time. But, the arrival of Kenneth Long in our group confronts us with another dilemma.
It seems that Kenneth's family is of British origin, but that is not yet certain. This family has a particular and well-documented genealogy. The majority of this family lived in Massachusetts, with the exception of Isaac Long, Kenneth's ancestor, who went on to live in Pennsylvania. Their documentation up to the 17th century is quite beautiful! A first William Long in MA in the middle of the 17th century: a treasure for this family! But, we do not know from which country they came from. At that time, there were Longs mainly in England, Ireland and Germany. You have just understood that if Kenneth's family has its roots in England, how can Darl Long's family claim to be from Germany? Let's put forward the following answer.
A temporal measure, not a spatial measure
It is crucial to know that the Y-DNA test relates to time, not space. The Y-chromosome does not change when an individual moves from one country to another. However, a family who lived in Finland in 1513 and whose descendants would have landed in England in 1925 may have undergone mutations during those four centuries, regardless of the country where those descendants lived. This was only a fictitious example to demonstrate that the Darl & Kenneth families may have had a MRCA who lived in Scandinavia in 1556 and whose descendants immigrated to other countries during this time and eventually ended up in the United States in the 17th and 18th centuries.
Table 6 compares my result to the other members of haplogroup. It shows that there is no difference between me and Gilles Long.
Table 6
The difference between me and the other members of haplogroup at the genetic distance reflected by the number of different markers on the DNA-37 marker test.
In Table 7, it is clear that L*NGs in Madawaska share a distant ancestor with Kenneth Long. This MRCA would have lived four centuries ago. Kenneth's family cannot be referred to as a close-knit family!
Table 7
Comparison between Gilles Long and Kenneth Long on their MRCA
But, in Table 8, we share a 'more recent' MRCA with Darl Long (descendant of John R. and Sarah Piper).
Table 8
Comparison between Darl Long and myself at our ACPR
A social movement from East to West
Because the immigration movement for several centuries has been from East to West, it is not surprising that those who show a Y-chromosome similar to ours may have lived in Russia, then Scandinavia, then Germany, then the United Kingdom and finally the United States. This interpretation is possible: it remains to be seen how well it applies to our family. In time, others will pass the Y-DNA test. Only one other candidate to join our haplogroup could further clarify Philip Long's recent origins.
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